Re: Exteriorization VS. Dissociation
Here are some links with info on hallucinatory dissociation . In some hypothesis on dissociation the OBE is explained as a form of dissociation that involves very vivid , more real than normal memories and very convincing hallucinations. Several experiments have been reported to reproduce OBEs and that the researchers concluded they are entirely hallucinatory in effect.
The following links have info on the experiments and the conclusions reached in great detail .
And here is a quote from another link :
[h=Experimental manipulations of the sense of self-location]3[/h]Self-location has been mainly investigated through experimentally induced out-of-body experiences (OBE). The experimental paradigm to induce an OBE in healthy subject consists in participants wearing a head-mounted display (HMD) occluding the physical body and displaying the back of their own body -or that of a mannequin- as filmed from a distance of roughly two meters. The visual perspective then coincides with the location of the real body and is dissociated from the location of the virtual body seen through the HMD. The illusion is then triggered through congruent visuotactile stimulation on the real and fake body. When synchronous visuotactile stimulation is delivered on the back (Lenggenhager et al., 2007), most participants experience the illusion of looking at their body from the outside, similarly to what is reported in OBEs of neurological origin (Blanke and Mohr, 2005). This illusion is associated with illusory changes in self-location, with a systematic shift from the participant's visual perspective toward the seen body. Such a drift has been consistently found throughout a variety of assessments: the “walking task ” (Lenggenhager et al., 2007) and the “mental ball dropping” task (Lenggenhager et al., 2009) provided explicit measures of the perceived self-location in external and body-centered reference frames respectively, while the crossmodal congruency task (CCT) was used to implicitly assess self-location through the localization of tactile events in the external space (Aspell et al., 2009).
Functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) revealed that these illusory changes in self-location correlate with activity in the temporo-parietal junction (TPJ) and the extrastriate body area (EBA) (Ionta et al., 2011). The implication of the TPJ was consistently found in lesion studies on neurological patients suffering aberrations in self-location (Blanke et al., 2004). Focal electrical stimulation of the TPJ was further shown to systematically trigger OBE (Blanke et al., 2002). End Quote.
Here is the link for that http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4161166/ :
Now I saw a video regarding several experiments and studies that asserted the replication of the experience of being away from or outside one's body via VR or electrical stimulation of certain brain regions as creating the experience in a controlled reproducible way .They all concluded the experience is entirely hallucinatory .
Besides the thing about these things is to me if you engage an unbaised requirement for proof and reproducibility you are to me sunk if you have your happiness tied to confirmation bias that exteriorization validates spiritual states which validates immortality which validates personal immortality for those that believe . Plainly some who want only data that leans toward or may be interpreted as showing exteriorization as real do so not out of honest inquiry but from a " How can I prove what I need to believe to be happy with my findings ? " approach .
Look , if OBE are genuine as the exteriorization promised in Scientology then why has no one started ever validating them ? I am not talking rumors of CIA backed remote viewing but about someone actually going " I can tell you what is behind a wall "and winning the prize from James Randi or demonstrating on what is behind something and with a high reproducibility to validate their ability or their philosophy or religion as producing miracles ?
Think logically if even one human being in modern times , say the last thirty years was willing and able to consistently produce anything , even inconsistently resembling many claimed OT abilities it would be documented and filmed and tested and net them fame and fortune .
There are tens of thousands of claims of such feats , probably every year . But none are ever able to work in controlled settings that an expert stage magician uses to detect and neutralize fraudulent claims . The psychics cannot show anything remotely accurate or convincing or the telekinetics . They can never in controlled conditions move a tiny piece of metal foil at all , not even once for a million dollars EVER .
James Randi and several other skeptics have repeatedly shown that many psychics are frauds using cold reading and once explained they look like con men .On Youtube if you type in exposing psychics I found very convincing videos in which high profile psychics such as John Edwards and Theresa Caputo are to my mind shown to be entirely deceptive and cold readers and even that Theresa uses plants and outright lies to people and she and her son and husband all know .
Derren Brown also exposes many frauds in great detail in several videos quite well .
Here is a link to the James Randi Foundation for any mighty OT who can use a million dollars : http://web.randi.org/the-million-dollar-challenge.html
I am very sorry but if you could do any of several hundred OT abilities the world would be a very different place . Aside from Hubbard never needing OSA and the GO as he could have spied by leaving his body and visited enemies himself , he could also have read minds to get info and predicted the future and...
Not to mention never healing anyone despite many claims and promises of OT powers and Scientology processes both to routinely heal the sick and make the blind see and even dead rise .
Look we all have a natural desire for order and fairness and living forever and Scientology through sublime writing stirs that emotional appeal ( a fallacy ) to encourage our need for security and safety , and what is safer than living forever and all OT powers by implication point to immortaliy as a materialistic explantion does not cover them so we want the claims supporting a spiritual proof to be right instinctively . Think of not just Scientology but all the billions of people who have lived and that it is reported that over 85% of people have some spiritual or religious beliefs even if they conflict with sciences they study . I am not saying the religions are wrong ( I can neither prove or disprove God ) but that the people do not in fact perform the miracles or OT feats claimed or someone somewhere in modern video-tapable scientifically verifiable times should have stepped up to the plate and done it , even once ever .
I am not saying even extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof - even adequate or verifiable to a convincing degree proof - has to my knowledge never been brought forth . But lots and lots of claims are made and remade to create a mystery and a maybe and you can look only at the repeated pattern of claims but it may just be a pattern of the same hopes being exploited over and over .
Think about it just from Scientology : we were supposed to have thousands of OTs who should be spending a lot of time hanging around hospitals and healing sick kids or even their own family members or winning the lottery or in Vegas or predicting sporting events or reading minds and helping police solve crimes or , if they are in the SO or follow Miscavige stopping critics from typing on ESMB by postulate or telekinetically crushing me ...OUCH !
or if indies or freezoners using their powers to stop critics from daring to besmirch the holy tech or Hubbard's " good name " .
EVERY act of defiance and J & D serves to prove the OT powers myth is just that , certainly for all Scientologists and Scientology.
Mockingbird's Nest : http://mbnest.blogspot.com/search?up...08:00&max-resu
stuff at ESMB