There is a part of the experience of trying to use reason with a Scientologist ( or truth be told some exes that can even include oneself ) or get them to LISTEN to critical info that many , if not all , who try to warn them or inform them inevitably run into and are seemingly eternally frustrated by to no end .
I will now use some quotes to help show my point :
“To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.”
― Thomas Paine, The American Crisis
Men's
reasonings on practical subjects are not cold, logical processes,
standing separate in the mind, but are carried on in intimate connection
with their prevalent feelings and modes of thought. Generally
speaking, that, and that only, is truth to a man which accords with the
common tone of his mind, with the mass of his impressions, with the
results of his experience, with his measure of intellectual
development, and especially with those deep convictions and biases
which constitute what we call character.
WILLIAM E. CHANNING, Thoughts
He who in reasoning cites authority is making use of his memory rather than of his intellect.
LEONARDO DA VINCI, Thoughts on Art and Life
Men may be divided into two classes, according to the use they make of reason. Some men employ reason, or, as it is more commonly called, SENSE, to defend error by argument; others employ it, to discover and distinguish truth: the power, therefore, which we call SENSE, may exist without its use; and it is only valuable, in proportion as the mind is candid, dispassionate, impartial, and unprejudiced.
FULKE GREVILLE, Maxims, Characters, and Reflections
As soon as we abandon our own reason, and are content to rely upon authority, there is no end to our troubles.
BERTRAND RUSSELL, An Outline of Intellectual Rubbish
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Aristotle
Now , often talking to a Scientologist and trying to engage critical thinking( i.e. reason ) about Scientology is considered the equivalent of banging your head on an adamantium wall .( Wikipedia quotes on adamantium :Adamantium is a metal alloy in the Marvel Comics Universe best known for being the substance bonded to the character Wolverine's skeleton and bone claws. In the Marvel Universe, adamantium is a group of man-made metal alloys of varying durability, but all are nearly indestructible. )
Now , the above quotes are to try to introduce a number of ideas for consideration relative to Scientology. First off in discussing or considering ideas with oneself or others there is a long held and possibly valid idea that a person may be in several states or modes that have distinct qualities. In one a person listens and considers ideas that may conflict with one's own or have unfortunate or undesirable meanings or implications. A person may settle their passions and carefully question many ideas - even and especially including long held or assumed and often uninspected ideas - that are relevant to examining a subject , idea or theme . A person may realize relying on authorities is simply bad reasoning and shuts down actual learning and understanding and is a very poor substitute for looking at ideas and evidence both for and against ideas and independent thinking , discovery and understanding - not to mention practically aborting innovation and improvement .
A person may consult authorities for information to examine and always keep the ideas of others clearly apart from one's own ideas and if they agree with conclusions after careful independent verification they may see that both hold some ideas in common but very likely never all .A person may see that some agreement does not mean for any reason uninspected ideas should be seen as proven when in fact they are not - no matter who the source is - good or bad . A person may see that ideas that show desirable or pleasing information are in no way shown to be true or not by the desirability of the ideas being true or false .
Or a person may " reason " in a VERY different way . They may see Hubbard as infallible , ALWAYS right , a SOURCE of workable and unquestionable and un-doubt-able " technology " that can NEVER be criticized and that all criticism AUTOMATICALLY stems from " crimes " and insanity and evil purposes by the CRITIC .
They may accept all the concepts contained in the language of Scientology and Dianetics as universal absolute truth and that " knowing " the language itself is proof of superior eternal spiritual knowledge and deep spiritual enlightenment far beyond mortal men .
They may take great comfort in remembering "applicable" policy and doctrine when situations arise and questions are brought up as proof that the technology is both correct and all-encompassing .
They can see the vividness of personal experiences and beliefs as trumping any objections or outside ideas - to the point that such ideas are to NEVER be looked at seriously and certainly never to be investigated as anything other than a guide on WHO to attack ( the source of the conflicting or contradictory ideas ) . I think these two broad groups have been observed to exist and the severity with which they are polarized is particularly extreme in Scientology .That they exist is certainly not a new idea at all.
I will attempt to make it clear that this is intentional on the part of Hubbard and not just a product of individual styles or personalities at all to me . There is a very specific process he uses to create this effect and very specific behaviors , emotions and thoughts to expose , examine and change to effectively deal with this in my opinion .
The process he used has several ways it can be described but I will say it is implanting - putting a hypnotic command in a person's mind below the conscious level of awareness in a hidden manner .
It can also be called thought reform , mind control , double bind based covert forced cognitive restructuring via hypnotic indoctrination reinforced by linguistic reframing ( loaded language ) and repetition and a variety of other correct names . I at this point agree with Jon Atack's assertion that Scientology is AN implant . It at first SEEMED an extreme idea to call a body of information with a reported thirty five MILLION words and seemingly hundreds of practices and techniques ONE implant - it is incredulous .
I have found it to be after VERY careful examination to also be TRUE .
See , ALL the info and activities are intended to utterly confuse a victim and via that use contradiction to cause trance logic to replace normal thought and make the critical and independent thinking depart and trusting blind slavish compliance and an inability to see contradictions in anything from the master ( Hubbard ) become and stay the new norm until death .
From The Free Dictionary :
trance logic Popular psychology An altered mental state in which a person's normal capacity for critical analysis is suspended, and inconsistencies in logic are better tolerated; TL opens a hypnotized person to suggestion. end quote
And from my article Scholars on Scientology :Hypnosis involves the suspension of "normal" logic. Trance logic is characterized by, among other things, lack of criticalness and the ability to hold two contradictory beliefs as true without one canceling out the other (Orne, 1959). Thus, in trance one can have the sensation of cold and still be aware of being seated in a warm, heated room. Corollary: in trance, people can accept notions or ideas that they would otherwise reject because they contradict other beliefs known to be based in reality. For example, the members of one Hindu-based cult believe that the space program is a hoax and yet may listen to and accept weather reports based on satellite pictures. end quote
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthrea...387#post988387
That is it - ONE super complex mind control method and a giant caste system for mankind centered on making and retaining INDIVIDUAL slaves COVERTLY .
The method has dozens or really hundreds of other methods WITHIN and bolstering the main method but they HELP it by increasing confusion and trust and other factors to fool the victim and increase and maintain vulnerability to the fraud .
It is a way of making an enslaving and enslaved POPULATION that is BLINDLY obeying authority and progressively submitting and complying totally to greater and greater EVIL as individual judgement including moral judgement is insidiously eroded .Some have said it as experiment - if only by Hubbard or backed by others with power or their own " technology " of mental manipulation...I will not explore...YET .
It most certainly is an effort - at least by him - to make one thing no matter how many angles or sub-methods are within the overall framework . Now there are VERY specific parts within the method that in my mind MAKE the victim hang onto the doctrine and reject any criticism in a most unreasonable manner.In particular there is a behavior and emotion and thought pattern that repeats over and over that has at its core certain human vulnerabilities that have long existed that are exploited thoroughly by being triggered and channeled by the " technology " of Dianetics and Scientology .
They are painstakingly fine tuned and targeted for maximum effectiveness in shutting down the mind and holding trance logic AND at protecting the state from any threats .
These implants are perhaps most easily described as the names they have had for thousands or years in logic and rhetoric and debate before the custom fine tuned versions Hubbard made where created : LOGICAL FALLACIES . Fallacies are fake or deceptive arguments, arguments that prove nothing. Fallacies often seem superficially sound, and far too often have immense persuasive power, even after being clearly exposed as false. Fallacies are not always deliberate, but a good scholar’s purpose is always to identify and unmask fallacies in arguments.
Logical fallacies are not just incorrect by rules of debate or make you lose contests where in they are frowned upon : they shut off or down the reasoning of the USER , IF believed by the user - not just an audience that fails to see their use and flaws.
You see if I see a point as settled by an idea or saying or rule then I am very unlikely to examine it or ideas about it further . So , whether I am being told or telling the fallacy it may prevent engaging the critical factor and encourage limited thinking marked by a pronounced lack of depth and examination .
I am now going to give a short and very brief list of some of the very most common and agreed upon fallacies and some comments on each .
I am going to use quotes from Wikiepedia to define simply some terms
Ad hominem is a Latin word for a type of argument. It is a word often used in rhetoric. Rhetoric is the science of speaking well, and convincing other people of your ideas.
Translated to English, ad hominem means against the person. In other words, when someone makes an ad hominem, they are attacking the person they are arguing against, instead of what they are saying.The term comes from the Latin word homo, which means human. Hominem is a gender neutral version of the word homo. In ancient Rome it referred to all free men, or in other words, all free human beings.Ad hominem can be a way to use reputation, rumors and hearsay to change the minds of other people listening. When a social network has already excluded or exiled one person, or applied a negative label to them, this can work more often. It is most of the time considered to be a weak and poor argument.
Now the argument is implanted in Scientologists so often and repetitively and with such variation many use it routinely as a substitute for reason until death - EVEN if they leave and become exes and renounce Hubbard and the technology - because they do not see the fundamental changes to their thinking and behavior that have occurred.
It is in KSW and the SP doctrine and the all critics have crimes that motivate them doctrine and the wog doctrine and the tone scale doctrine and the analytical mind and reactive mind doctrine and EVERY time you read or hear the terms clear or preclear - they assert that Hubbard was saner and more able and knew more than EVERYONE else EVER .
He conditions Scientologists to automatically attack the attacker and NEVER address the attack - THAT is the essence of ad hominem . In Scientology " attacks " are pleas by family to examine legal records or actual medical technology or hear both the pros and cons of Scientology from critics AND supporters! "Attacks " are also honest records and accurate stories by reporters - free speech !
This also manifests as the indie who says well you must have never had " real Scientology " if it did not work ! Or you must not know what you are talking about if you disagree with Hubbard !They are saying YOU have to be the problem if you have criticism or disagreement and it not only cannot be valid BUT it must NEVER be examined and YOU must ALWAYS be attacked !
Look , this is prejudice pure and simple - I get it from exes and indies and freezoners who in a panic at my stating that all the tech is harmful and fraud try to attack my " lack of experience " or " being dumb " and I say it does not matter if I am the stupidest idiot ever : if my ideas are valid it does not matter who presents them .
And some cannot ever get that a person capable of being stupid or looking foolish can also present valid ideas.Well if someone can never get past that they will be very limited for the rest of their life in learning and reason .
It is conditioned to be turned to to squash internal mental and emotional discomfort and doubt and to project negative emotions externally at critics diverting attention from critical thinking - that if it even slightly turns down trance logic releases tremendous stress and mental discomfort and confusion to overwhelm the victim's mind .
So , the victim feels terrible if considering thinking of criticism as anything other than a trigger to follow Hubbard's implants to attack ," know " the doctrine regarding this is certain and unquestionably correct AND to project doubt and confusion on doctrine and self into BLIND unreasoning hate of critics .
It is simple : look with the trance logic removed and go into tremendous trauma of breaking the framework of reality and its artificial shielding from confusion and internal negative emotions like fear , hopelessness and matters long unresolved consciously OR maintain the trance by keeping critical and independent thought in check and substituting submission to and compliance with hypnotic commands ( including the loaded language itself ) as a SUBSTITUTE for conscious thought !
The double bind is simple : submit or suffer , if you submit negative experiences get turned off and the ones the tech cannot stop are re-identified as being caused by external sources to be attacked - not the bad results and no results of Scientology !
Next I will show a fallacy that many exes and Scientologists fall for .
It is so rampant that I will present it with an even higher standard than is usually used .
An Appeal to Authority is a fallacy with the following form:
- Person A is (claimed to be) an authority on subject S.
- Person A makes claim C about subject S.
- Therefore, C is true.
This fallacy is committed when the person in question is not a legitimate authority on the subject. More formally, if person A is not qualified to make reliable claims in subject S, then the argument will be fallacious.
This sort of reasoning is fallacious when the person in question is not an expert. In such cases the reasoning is flawed because the fact that an unqualified person makes a claim does not provide any justification for the claim. The claim could be true, but the fact that an unqualified person made the claim does not provide any rational reason to accept the claim as true.
When a person falls prey to this fallacy, they are accepting a claim as true without there being adequate evidence to do so.
The above quote is from the Nikzor project .
I actually believe you should always keep separate the ideas you have verified or originated from those others claim that MIGHT be true and never mix them .
Hundreds of claims by Scientologists rest on Hubbard being an expert without peer in many fields - but his expertise is backed by his claim of his creation's effectiveness which is backed by his claim of being an expert - it is purely a circular argument that in Scientology's enormity is hidden ! See , in thirty five million words he says " Scientology is valid because I am qualified to say it works as I made it and am validated as an authority which is proven by it working so I am thereby qualified to state that it works which it must as I say it ! "
Pure idiocy spread out over a lifetime ! That was the "magic " Hub tried to sell Nibs on ! A way to lie and fool that lasts until death ! Additionally the ad hominem in Scientology is usually used with appeal to emotion in a truly unscrupulous and hidden way :
Again from the Nikzor project :
Description of Appeal to Emotion An Appeal to Emotion is a fallacy with the following structure:
- Favorable emotions are associated with X.
- Therefore, X is true.
This fallacy is committed when someone manipulates peoples' emotions in order to get them to accept a claim as being true. More formally, this sort of "reasoning" involves the substitution of various means of producing strong emotions in place of evidence for a claim. If the favorable emotions associated with X influence the person to accept X as true because they "feel good about X," then he has fallen prey to the fallacy.
This sort of "reasoning" is very common in politics and it serves as the basis for a large portion of modern advertising. Most political speeches are aimed at generating feelings in people so that these feelings will get them to vote or act a certain way. in the case of advertising, the commercials are aimed at evoking emotions that will influence people to buy certain products. In most cases, such speeches and commercials are notoriously free of real evidence.
This sort of "reasoning" is quite evidently fallacious. It is fallacious because using various tactics to incite emotions in people does not serve as evidence for a claim. For example, if a person were able to inspire in a person an incredible hatred of the claim that 1+1 = 2 and then inspired the person to love the claim that 1+1 = 3, it would hardly follow that the claim that 1+1 = 3 would be adequately supported.
It should be noted that in many cases it is not particularly obvious that the person committing the fallacy is attempting to support a claim. In many cases, the user of the fallacy will appear to be attempting to move people to take an action, such as buying a product or fighting in a war. However, it is possible to determine what sort of claim the person is actually attempting to support. In such cases one needs to ask "what sort of claim is this person attempting to get people to accept and act on?" Determining this claim (or claims) might take some work. However, in many cases it will be quite evident. For example, if a political leader is attempting to convince her followers to participate in certain acts of violence by the use of a hate speech, then her claim would be "you should participate in these acts of violence." In this case, the "evidence" would be the hatred evoked in the followers. This hatred would serve to make them favorable inclined towards the claim that they should engage in the acts of violence. As another example, a beer commercial might show happy, scantily clad men and women prancing about a beach, guzzling beer. In this case the claim would be "you should buy this beer." The "evidence" would be the excitement evoked by seeing the beautiful people guzzling the beer.
This fallacy is actually an extremely effective persuasive device. As many people have argued, peoples' emotions often carry much more force than their reason. Logical argumentation is often difficult and time consuming and it rarely has the power to spurn people to action. It is the power of this fallacy that explains its great popularity and wide usage. However, it is still a fallacy.
In all fairness it must be noted that the use of tactics to inspire emotions is an important skill. Without an appeal to peoples' emotions, it is often difficult to get them to take action or to perform at their best. For example, no good coach presents her team with syllogisms before the big game. Instead she inspires them with emotional terms and attempts to "fire" them up. There is nothing inherently wrong with this. However, it is not any acceptable form of argumentation. As long as one is able to clearly distinguish between what inspires emotions and what justifies a claim, one is unlikely to fall prey to this fallacy.
As a final point, in many cases it will be difficult to distinguish an Appeal to Emotion from some other fallacies and in many cases multiple fallacies may be committed. For example, many Ad Hominems will be very similar to Appeals to Emotion and, in some cases, both fallacies will be committed.
As an example, a leader might attempt to invoke hatred of a person to inspire his followers to accept that they should reject her claims. The same attack could function as an Appeal to Emotion and a Personal Attack. In the first case, the attack would be aimed at making the followers feel very favorable about rejecting her claims. In the second case, the attack would be aimed at making the followers reject the person's claims because of some perceived (or imagined) defect in her character. end quote
This is further compounded by Hubbard's using it in combination with the other fallacies and the reality that compliance and agreement are rewarded with the trance state providing euphoric experiences and not cooperating results in suspension of trance logic and its accompanying protection from cognitive dissonance - actually cooperation acts as a cognitive distortion in itself - really a cognitive distortion factory making many kinds and types of distortions.
http://psychcentral.com/lib/15-commo...rtions/0002153
The above link lists fifteen distortions with names like black and white thinking , Heaven’s Reward Fallacy , Always Being Right , Global Labeling , Emotional Reasoning , Blaming - all of these are fallacies and it is a never win situation - comply to avoid discomfort and in complying take on hidden dissonance and manifest distortions OR try to use independent reason and throw off the trance and thereby trigger the dissonance consciously which acts to prompt cognitive distortions which bring on confusion , disorientation and anxiety - ALL of which increase both hypnotic vulnerability and a marked lack of good judgement and reasoning !
This is the true genius of mind control based in this manner on the double bind - you are damned either way once far enough into the trap and it gets a tighter grip the further you go and longer you are in very often as your natural instincts and efforts make it stronger.
Now , this is not all gloom and doom as Scientology never took over the world or even a single city or country .
It also has thousands leave and cannot get the vast majority to accept it as a religion or decent practice - so the technology is overall for world conquering a failure but for the people stuck in and who come out and do not fully recover it can be devastating .
The trap has certain ways even the very heavily indoctrinated who are in trance logic all the time or very close to it do actually escape .
I certainly qualify as someone totally brainwashed for many years and broke out bit by bit by studying Jon Atack and Arnie Lerma's stuff and branching out .
But I started totally convinced of several facts
1) Hubbard was a pathological liar who never produced any workable technology and EVERYTHING he wrote or said should be fully disregarded as much as humanly possible .
2) The loaded language re-frames reality covertly limiting and channeling thinking and acting as post-hypnotic commands and should be completely rejected and wherever possible real true accurate English words should be used to replace it .
It is okay to use it in J & D to show its absurdity and lack of possible rational reality - as this is reversing the sacredness Scientology uses to hide the truth .
3)The experiences and events in Scientology are controlled and misrepresented to fool and control people : they must be taken apart with careful critical and skeptical re-framing in a more accurate and unbiased way to minimize or remove the influence they have and continue to have on victims.
4) The methods in Scientology are totally misrepresented as to their true nature, intent and results and are certainly harmful so they must never be used to solve or handle Scientology - a lie does not cure a lie and reveal truth .
I will now list several links on fallacies that can be examined and some more I am certain are implanted in Scientology routinely : Composition/division , black or white , genetic , ambiguity , burden of proof , bandwagon , anecdotal , appeal to nature , no true Scotsman , and there are several more and Hubbard even uses more complex custom ones .
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/whatarff.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/
http://changingminds.org/disciplines...cies_alpha.htm
I went to the first link and ordered a poster they sell that has about two dozen fallacies very simply explained and put it up and it has been undescribably helpful in my work .
I recommend everyone get it and study and restudy it .
Once you really spend time trying to see how people almost constantly use fallacies unknowingly you can spot them in yourself and start the fight to lessen them .
You can also see how so many things Hub said are unsupported by reason or evidence and only manipulation and rhetorical ( persuasive language ) tricks and mind control are all he ever had .
Look , he tried everything under the sun on hypnosis and mind control and thought reform and a thousand other areas of controlling humans like occult rituals to fool and hypnotize and old school hypnosis and guided imagery renamed and combined with electrification and conditioning and tons of odds and ends from psychology and psychiatry and totalist ( completely controlling their victims ) groups and tricks con men and hustlers use but once you take those away there is NOTHING beneficial left - in his character or " technology ".
This can be crushing to take - a life fooled by an insane evil man with no great wisdom gained or redemption .
That's the cards that are here to be played - we are not experts on the mind or life , just getting screwed over .
We are not automatically wiser than regular people or elite and have to be humble and not guided by wounded pride in our evaluation of who and what we now are and what we will be .
We lost - it will not be changed by trying to blame society or feel the experience makes us special .
Survivors of wars know their experience quite well but are not treated like that makes them especially suited for life after the war .
That has several parallels to our experience .
It can be devastating but the thing I know that took about twenty six years to get to is that life is enjoyable to some degree and with Scientology that degree is greatly lowered and so Scientology should be removed from it .
It is a lesson some can learn in twenty six seconds or minutes and the rest of the time was a huge waste and loss and that is it .
I hope this is of some use to some of you .
PS in case there is anyone who has not read my earlier tech threads here is a link to them :
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthrea...UENCE-OF-STUDY
And the predecessor to this link : the secret of Scientology part 1 :
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthrea...113#post980113
And some of Arnie Lerma's most relevant stuff
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthrea...Re-Scientology
Mockingbird's Nest : http://mbnest.blogspot.com/search?up...08:00&max-resu
stuff at ESMB
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthrea...390#post989390
